EDIT: no, I don’t sympathize with nazis (neither I sympathize with those who call everyone nazi when they’re losing an argument ;)
No offense but this is kind of what happens in real life too. Nazi shows up to local bar. Barman or owner doesn’t throw them out. Eventually they invite their friends. It winds up being known a Nazi bar. People who don’t want to associate with Nazis no longer visit the bar. This is why intolerance of the intolerant is a thing.
The paradox of tolerance.
Tolerance must tolerate all but intolerance of tolerance
Tolerance is a social contract.
If you refuse to be bound by it, then you are a direct threat to the contract, and those who follow it, and should be treated as such.
I’m so glad that the comments have (mostly) finally unified in agreement that defederating Nazis and other hideous people is the right move.
We tried every other form of debate on the topic. If people are engaging in a discourse in bad faith in hopes that they will benefit from the publicity, your best option is to ignore them.
Yup, exactly
I’m not up to date on the drama. Who got defeded?
Unless the nazi wears red, then let him spew his holocaust denial because “western propaganda imperialism butwhatabout they deserved it it never happened.”
What a simple, stupid argument.
You can’t enter a discussion with somebody who’s just trying to bombard you into submission. OP is wildly ignorant or just somebody sad they’re being defederated on a different account.
But seriously, fuck them tankies.
This post assumes that a meaningful amount of defed instances are caused by simple lack of agreement. Often, it’s an orthogonal matter - it boils down to instance A actually understanding something about the userbase of instance B and saying “I’m not dealing with this shit, it’ll make the instance worse for its own users”. For example: the typical user of B might be disingenuous, or preach immoral prescriptions, behave like a chimp, or be a bloody stupid piece of trash that should’ve stayed in Reddit to avoid smearing its stupidity everywhere here.
Are instance admins too eager to pull the trigger for defed? Perhaps, in some cases; specially because it handles groups of users instead of individuals. But those cases are better addressed through actual examples, not through a meme talking on generic grounds.
Thanks for a cool-headed comment!
I don’t have the patience to discuss transphobes and I will never, ever, understand them. Just go fuck yourself and then kindly fuck off.
agreed, it’s tiring arguing with people who’d rather demonize others than consider questioning whatever youtube rabbit hole they fell down
Defed is cheaper than consulting a lawyer.
You can’t tolerate nazis or tankies. Bad reasoning altogether. Look at the state the USA is in right now because we decided to tolerate fascists.
Exactly. The cancer may wear a swastika or a hammer-and-sickle. Either way, it’s authoritarian cancer.
You can see what OP is trying to do here though, even with his edits. He’s “both sides-ing” it up.
Indeed! I think a lot of people here are getting wise to that.
Everyone in here but me seems to know which defeds this is about.
What’s cool about the fediverse is that we get to choose.
Do I want to be in an instance that federates with everyone, good and bad?
Pros:
- More content.
- Potentially insightful debate.
Cons:
- More negativity.
- Potentially giving a platform to extremists.
Or do I want to be in an instance that defederates on a whim?
Pros:
- More positive content.
- Taking a strong stance against extremism.
Cons:
- Less content.
- Potentially missing insightful debate.
Personally, debate I’ve had that was insightful was generally in good faith to begin with, and would be allowed on platforms like Beehaw, so I don’t see much use for “anything goes” kinds of platforms. Additionally, I’m not always in the mood for debate. I can just switch between different instances depending on my mood. Given that everyone can choose their instance, I don’t see much of a reason for trying to federate with everyone.
I haven’t seen much in the way of actual debate, more ‘soviets good west bad, da comrade!’
There’s nothing to be gained from arguing with crazies and naive college students. Had my fill of those types on reddit. Now I point and laugh until I get too annoyed and I’ll find a new instance
Agreed. I haven’t been on an instance that federates with them yet and I’d like to keep it that way.
I’d hit yellow, the ignore button.
Wise words, seriously.
I’m going to defederate with this post
I literally just left sh.itjust.works because they federated with hexbear.
I’d rather an instance defederate with a toxic instance than have to switch instances in order to avoid said toxic instance.
But apparently sh.itjust.works doesn’t care about it’s users wants despite the majority wanting to defederate.
Just change instances. Who tf cares if you switch or not lol.
So the solution is to just kick people we disagree with off all the mainstream platforms and ensure they go to their own echo chambers where they are isolated from any reasonable counters to their ideology, which will just ultimately make the problem worse? Brilliant.
It’s like the war on drugs. If we just ban it then surely the problem will disappear…except it just gets worse.
How can people be this shortsighted?
They’re already isolated in their own echo chambers. Have you ever actually tried arguing with these people? You might as well argue with a religious person about how their faith is bullshit. They don’t listen they just scream and throw a tantrum while insulting you the whole time.
I have argued with them a lot in person and online. Yeah, most of the time it is futile. Every now and then it’s not. You ever hear of that black guy who makes friends with KKK members? Sometimes they give up their bullshit and they become friends. I will accept the risk of having futile arguments with many if there is a chance that logic and reason breaks through to a few.
Well you have my respect but I don’t have that kind of willpower. I’d rather just not deal with them at all.
Cheers. Not everyone has the constitution to engage, and that’s fine. I do not think hate should be tolerated, but I think it must be confronted with reason. The only alternatives seem to be more isolation, extremism, and violence.
The only people here I can’t vibe with are people with like karl marx or smth as their banners and people trying to abolish the age of consent
you are completely free to discuss with tankies all you want, even if instances defederate (for example, you could make an account on their instance)
