College professors are going back to paper exams and handwritten essays to fight students using ChatGPT::The growing number of students using the AI program ChatGPT as a shortcut in their coursework has led some college professors to reconsider their lesson plans for the upcoming fall semester.

  • maegul (he/they)@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    13
    arrow-down
    11
    ·
    1 year ago

    Here’s a somewhat tangential counter, which I think some of the other replies are trying to touch on … why, exactly, continue valuing our ability to do something a computer can so easily do for us (to some extent obviously)?

    In a world where something like AI can come up and change the landscape in a matter of a year or two … how much value is left in the idea of assessing people’s value through exams (and to be clear, I’m saying this as someone who’s done very well in exams in the past)?

    This isn’t to say that knowing things is bad or making sure people meet standards is bad etc. But rather, to question whether exams are fit for purpose as means of measuring what matters in a world where what’s relevant, valuable or even accurate can change pretty quickly compared to the timelines of ones life or education. Not long ago we were told that we won’t have calculators with us everywhere, and now we could have calculators embedded in our ears if wanted to. Analogously, learning and examination is probably being premised on the notion that we won’t be able to look things up all the time … when, as current AI, amongst other things, suggests, that won’t be true either.

    An exam assessment structure naturally leans toward memorisation and being drilled in a relatively narrow band of problem solving techniques,1 which are, IME, often crammed prior to the exam and often forgotten quite severely pretty soon afterward. So even presuming that things that students know during the exam are valuable, it is questionable whether the measurement of value provided by the exam is actually valuable. And once the value of that information is brought into question … you have to ask … what are we doing here?

    Which isn’t to say that there’s no value created in doing coursework and cramming for exams. Instead, given that a computer can now so easily augment our ability to do this assessment, you have to ask what education is for and whether it can become something better than what it is given what are supposed to be the generally lofty goals of education.

    In reality, I suspect (as many others do) that the core value of the assessment system is to simply provide a filter. It’s not so much what you’re being assessed on as much as your ability to pass the assessment that matters, in order to filter for a base level of ability for whatever professional activity the degree will lead to. Maybe there are better ways of doing this that aren’t so masked by other somewhat disingenuous goals?

    Beyond that there’s a raft of things the education system could emphasise more than exam based assessment. Long form problem solving and learning. Understanding things or concepts as deeply as possible and creatively exploring the problem space and its applications. Actually learn the actual scientific method in practice. Core and deep concepts, both in theory and application, rather than specific facts. Breadth over depth, in general. Actual civics and knowledge required to be a functioning member of the electorate.

    All of which are hard to assess, of course, which is really the main point of pushing back against your comment … maybe we’re approaching the point where the cost-benefit equation for practicable assessment is being tipped.


    1. In my experience, the best means of preparing for exams, as is universally advised, is to take previous or practice exams … which I think tells you pretty clearly what kind of task an exam actually is … a practiced routine in something that narrowly ranges between regurgitation and pretty short-form, practiced and shallow problem solving.
    • HexesofVexes@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      35
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      Ah the calculator fallacy; hello my old friend.

      So, a calculator is a great shortcut, but it’s useless for most mathematics (i.e. proof!). A lot of people assume that having a calculator means they do not need to learn mathematics - a lot of people are dead wrong!

      In terms of exams being about memory, I run mine open book (i.e. students can take pre-prepped notes in). Did you know, some students still cram and forget right after the exams? Do you know, they forget even faster for courseworks?

      Your argument is a good one, but let’s take it further - let’s rebuild education towards an employer centric training system, focusing on the use of digital tools alone. It works well, productivity skyrockets, for a few years, but the humanities die out, pure mathematics (which helped create AI) dies off, so does theoretical physics/chemistry/biology. Suddenly, innovation slows down, and you end up with stagnation.

      Rather than moving us forward, such a system would lock us into place and likely create out of date workers.

      At the end of the day, AI is a great tool, but so is a hammer and (like AI today), it was a good tool for solving many of the problems of its time. However, I wouldn’t want to only learn how to use a hammer, otherwise how would I be replying to you right now?!?

      • maegul (he/they)@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        21
        ·
        1 year ago

        So … I honestly think this is a problematic reply … I think you’re being defensive (and consequently maybe illogical), and, honestly, that would be the red flag I’d look for to indicate that there’s something rotten in academia. Otherwise, there might be a bit of a disconnect here … thoughts:

        • The calculator was in reference to arithmetic and other basic operations and calculations using them … not higher level (or actual) mathematics. I think that was pretty clear and I don’t think there’s any “fallacy” here, like at all.
        • The value of learning (actual) mathematics is pretty obvious I’d say … and was pretty much stated in my post about alternatives to emphasise. On which, getting back to my essential point … how would one best learn and be assessed on their ability to construct proofs in mathematics? Are timed open book exams (and studying in preparation for them) really the best we’ve got!?
        • Still forgetting with open book exams … seems like an obvious outcome as the in-exam materials de-emphasise memory … they probably never knew the things you claim they forget in the first place. Why, because the exam only requires the students to be able to regurgitate in the exam, which is the essential problem, and for which in-exam materials are a perfect assistant. Really not sure what the relevance of this point is.
        • Forgetting after coursework … how do you know this (genuinely curious)? Even so, course work isn’t the great opposite to exams. Under the time crunch of university, they are also often crammed, just not in an examination hall. The alternative forms of education/assessment I’m talking about are much more long-form and exploration and depth focused. The most I’ve ever remembered from a single semester subject came from when I was allowed to pursue a single project for the whole subject. Also, I didn’t mention ordinary general coursework in my post, as, again, it’s pretty much the same paradigm of education as exams, just done at home for the most part.
        • Rebuilding education toward employer centric training system … I … ummm … never suggested this … I suggested the opposite … only things that were far more “academic” than this and were never geared toward “productivity”. This is a pretty bad staw man argument for a professor to be making, especially given that it seems constructed to conclude that the academy and higher learning are essential for the future success of the economy (which I don’t disagree with or even question in my post).
        • You speak about AI a lot. Maybe your whole reply was solely to the whole calculator point I made. This, I think, misses the broader point, which most of my post was dedicated to. That is, this isn’t about us now needing to use AI in education (I personally don’t buy that at all for probably much of the same reason you’d push back on it). Instead, it’s about what it means about our education system that AI can kinda do the thing we’re using to assess ourselves … on which I say, it tells us that the value of assessment system we take pretty seriously ought to be questioned, especially, as I think we both agree on, given the many incredibly valuable things education has to offer the individual and society at large. In my case, I go further and say that the assessment system is and has already detracted from these potential offerings, and that it does not bode well for modern western society that it seems to be leaning into the assessment system rather than expanding its scope.
        • Landrin201@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          OK Mr Socrates how else would you assess whether a student has learned something?

          • maegul (he/they)@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            Ha … well if I had answers I probably wouldn’t be here! But seriously, I do think this is a tough topic with lots of tangled threads linked to how our society functions. I’m not sure there are any easy “fixes”, I don’t think anyone who thinks that can really be trusted, and it may very well turn out that I’m completely wrong and there is not “better way”, as something flawed and problematic may just turn out to be what humanity needs.

            A pretty minor example based on the whole thing of returning to paper exams. What happens when you start forcing students to be judged on their ability to do something, alone, where they know very well that they can do better with an AI assistant? Like at a psychological and cultural level? I don’t know, I’m not sure my generation (Xennial) or earlier ever had that. Even with calculators and arithmetic, it was always about laziness or dealing with big numbers that were impossible for (normal humans), or ensuring accuracy. It may not be the case that AI is at that level yet for many exams and students (I really don’t know), but it might be or might be soon. However valuable it is to force students to learn to do the task without the AI, there’s gotta be some broad cultural effect in just ignoring the super useful machine.

            Otherwise, my general ideas would be to emphasise longer form work (which AI is not terribly useful for). Work that requires creativity, thinking, planning, coherent understanding, human-to-human communication and collaboration. So research projects, actual practical work, debates, teaching as a form of assessment etc. In many ways, the idea of “having learned something” becomes just a baseline expectation. Exams, for instance, may still hold lots of value, but not as forms of objective assessment, but as a way of calibrating where you’re up to on the basic requirements to start the real “assessment” and what you still need to work on.

            Also … OK Mr Socrates … is maybe not the most polite way of engaging here … comes off as somewhat aggressive TBH.

    • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      In my experience, they love to give exams where it doesn’t matter what notes you bring, you’re on the same level whether you write down only the essential equations, or you copy down the whole textbook.

    • dragonflyteaparty@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      As they are talking about writing essays, I would argue the importance of being able to do it lies in being able to analyze a book/article/whatever, make an argument, and defend it. Being able to read and think critically about the subject would also be very important.

      Sure, rote memorization isn’t great, but neither is having to look something up every single time you ever need it because you forgot. There are also many industries in which people do need a large information base as close recall. Learning to do that much later in life sounds very difficult. I’m not saying people should memorize everything, but not having very many facts about that world around you at basic recall doesn’t sound good either.

      • maegul (he/they)@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Learning to do that much later in life sounds very difficult

        That’s an interesting point I probably take for granted.

        Nonetheless, exercising memory is probably something that could be done in a more direct fashion, and therefore probably better, without that concern affecting the way we approach all other forms of education.