• m_f@midwest.social
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    13
    arrow-down
    12
    ·
    2 days ago

    Would China not drop bombs if they faced no consequences and it benefited them?

    • hello_hello [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      11
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      24 hours ago

      No, China has something called a democracy and Chinese people don’t want to drop bombs on little kids. Let me make that clear, Chinese people don’t want to blow up little kids. It might be hard to wrap your mind around but a majority of people don’t want something to happen, so it doesn’t happen.

      The average American also doesn’t like the idea of having children be blown up, but they watch slop TV instead and complain about gas prices and having to wear a mask once in their life. When kids do get blown up the TV tells the american settler that they were evil kids, so they go back to complaining about tv shows and self-flattery.

      • m_f@midwest.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        9
        ·
        22 hours ago

        Sorry, if you legitimately believe that China doesn’t drop bombs on people because that’s the will of the people then I don’t think there’s any further productive conversation to be had. I admire your ability to believe, though.

        • m532@lemmygrad.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          17 hours ago

          Crackkker projecting again

          Seems you haven’t seen humanity ever in you life so you can’t imagine it existing

          Sad

    • porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      11
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      2 days ago

      Idk, they probably have had the opportunity sometimes, but they don’t have the same military industrial complex as the USA pushing for it at every chance. So the cost benefit analysis is different. Quite often it doesn’t benefit “the USA” as much as a few specific people within, and that mechanic doesn’t exist in the same way for China.

      • m_f@midwest.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        12
        ·
        1 day ago

        What do you mean that mechanic doesn’t exist in the same way for China? Are you talking like China has achieved a classless utopia situation?

        • porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          17
          ·
          edit-2
          1 day ago

          No, the arms manufacturers just don’t have the same level of influence over the government and armed forces that they do in America, and the people in the government who decide whether to drop bombs won’t personally get rich if they buy more bombs.

          That isn’t something unique to China btw but basically almost every country except USA and a few others.

          • m_f@midwest.social
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            10
            ·
            1 day ago

            Do you think that dynamic wouldn’t exist for any country, including China, that had as much world influence as the US does now?

            • OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              8
              ·
              edit-2
              1 day ago

              I mean- yeah, the birdcage model has been supplanted by majority public ownership at this point, the same incentives that create the military industrial complex don’t exist- if you’d like, i would recommend reading “Economy and Class Structure of German Fascism” which can be a handy reference point for the US military complex.

              • m_f@midwest.social
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                4
                ·
                22 hours ago

                Saying that China doesn’t have a MIC is a non-sequitur. The incentive is power. If acquiring or maintaining power in China requires military expansion, it will happen.

                • OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  6
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  18 hours ago

                  Except imperialism is actually incredibly inefficient in the long term. Western nations become imperialist due to the contradictions created by capitalism.There is a reason why China’s foreign policy is centered around mutual advancement.

              • m_f@midwest.social
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                10
                ·
                1 day ago

                My point is that the real hard-to-swallow pill for people like OP is that China is not a magical place where everyone just sings kumbaya all day. China is just like any other country comprised of humans that has existed ever, and would do the same things the US is doing now if they could. The only reason this meme is in any way accurate is that China can’t realistically drop bombs like that, otherwise they would. Tankies like OP will defend imperialism all day long, as long as the imperialists say “Death To America!”. If the US poofed out of existence today, there would be a power vacuum quickly filled by exactly the same sort of people that are dropping those bombs in the meme.

                So I guess my question is “What’s the point of pretending that China is any different?”

                • MarxMadness@lemmygrad.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  ·
                  5 hours ago

                  China is not a magical place where everyone just sings kumbaya all day

                  When you’re seriously engaging with what another person is saying

                • daltotron@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  14
                  ·
                  1 day ago

                  China is just like any other country comprised of humans that has existed ever, and would do the same things the US is doing now if they could.

                  Yeah, except they’re different countries, made up of different people, with a different culture, with a pretty much fundamentally different kind of organizational structure governing them. I don’t think “well, they’d probably do it too, if the US were gone” is a super convincing argument in favor of the US dropping bombs on people.

                  • m_f@midwest.social
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    arrow-down
                    5
                    ·
                    1 day ago

                    To be clear, I’m not in favor of dropping bombs on people. My argument is that saying “China isn’t dropping any bombs” is silly. They would if they could and it would achieve a goal.

                    Human nature doesn’t change just because you go over to the other side of the globe. History shows us that the wars over there haven’t been any less bloody. Why are you proposing that human nature is fundamentally different now?

                  • m_f@midwest.social
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    arrow-down
                    7
                    ·
                    1 day ago

                    That’s not projection, that’s basic human behavior. Do you think modern China just magically poofed into existence, or were there maybe a few bloody imperalist wars involved? Why would things be different now?

                • porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  5
                  ·
                  1 day ago

                  That’s just a thing you made up to justify not feeling bad, there is no reason to believe that anyone else would act the same way.

                  • m_f@midwest.social
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    arrow-down
                    6
                    ·
                    1 day ago

                    To be blunt, have you read a history book? People have been killing the outgroup in brutal struggles for power since time began. Are you aware of the phrase “the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must”? It comes from the Siege of Melos in 416 B.C.

                    I don’t like it, but that’s the way the world works, and has worked forever. Criticizing people in power for their actions is good. Saying “if only this other country was in power, things would be different” is foolish.