Oh boy, another dogshit kill animals hehe meme. Very funny maymay community. Psuedoprogressive animal abusers the lot of ya. There is not enough resources on Earth to quench your never ending demand for bodies. Just have ten trillion kids who all definitely have the opportunity to eat just as many animals as you do! Primitive zero brain cell fools. I’d throw you all out of Athens.
internet is filled with echo chambers who cant make ethical decisions of their own. veganism gets downvoted because it makes people question their morality & they have to make the effort of buying plant-based options. god forbid they eat food without cholesterol
More than half of America lives paycheck to paycheck. Vegan options are more expensive. Until you fix the economic crisis and solve poverty you really can’t enforce veganism.
This isn’t even getting into the fact that vegan options are literally nonexistent in many places.
Oh but you don’t care about that because you only care about veganism because it allows you to feel morally superior to others.
Veganism gets downvoted for the same reason any other fanaticism gets downvoted: the vocal minority that talks about it does so with a hoiler-than-thou attitude, much like you are doing right now.
The people who want me to stop punching nonconsenting people in the face unprovoked sure are smug about not punching nonconsenting people in the face unprovoked. They should stop telling me what to do. Live and let live. I am very intelligent. An enlightened centrist you might say! ☝️🤓
The vast majority of the Western world does not consider farm animals to have the same rights as humans or pets. Equating the ethics of eating meat and battery is really reaching for an example to make me look stupid.
But hey, if we’re playing that game, here’s some examples that demonstrate unnecessary and annoying proselytizing:
The people who want me to {blank} sure are smug about how they {blank}. They should keep telling me how their lifestyle is better. My opinion isn’t as important as theirs. I am very happy to be talked down upon. An enlightened listener, you might say! ☝️🤓
On the basis of their being conscious feeling thinking emotional beings I assert that there is no moral difference between violating the bodily autonomy of a non-human animal and a human. Given a no alternative hypothetical it’s fair to give preference for who to spare, but this is not the same as willful unnecessary violence and killing.
If it’s false equivalency, demonstrate why it is permissible to kill non humans but not even permissible to punch humans in the face. What is the morally relevant difference? If you could apply that difference to a human, would you then justify doing to them all the things we do to animals?
Insofar as our laws view animals, we do not afford them the same considerations or rights as we do our own species. I can’t speak for Europe, but in the legal systems of North American countries, animals are granted their own distinct protections separate from the protections given to entities with the designation of personhood (i.e. humans or service animals).
For instance, with permits and barring species that are protected for conservation reasons, humans are allowed to hunt and kill animals for both sport and sustenance. In such cases, animals do not consent to their hunting.
However, that does not mean that it is okay to hurt animals without cause. There are animal cruelty laws that cover unjustified and inhumane treatment of wild and pet animals.
If it is legal to kill animals but illegal to be “cruel” to them, then the act of killing an animal is not, in itself, cruelty. If it was, then animal cruelty would unconditionally occur during the process of hunting, making the latter illegal.
With these four points, and keeping in mind that laws are a reflection of the collective beliefs of society, we see that:
Harming humans is viewed as a different act than harming animals, and is not generally permissible.
Killing animals is permissible.
Inflicting intentional cruelty on animals is not permissible.
(2) is not precluded by (3).
By (1) and that punching a human in the face is an act of harming them (and also illegal), I conclude that it is not morally permissible to punch humans in the face.
By (2) and (4), I conclude that it is morally permissible to kill non-human animals.
Just in case anyone thinks relativism is a cop-out answer because laws were written in the past and may not be reflective of society’s current moral views, I ask you to consider this:
Laws are constantly changed to align with updated beliefs. Canada amended its laws to consider gender identity a protected class, which reflects the contemporary belief that transgender individuals deserve equality and freedom from being discriminated against. If society cared about not killing animals, hunting for sport would be unconditionally outlawed.
Edit 1: I meant cultural relativism. Non-Western cultures have different (and in some cases, more progressive) views on animal rights.
Foundationally we already disagree, as I’m a moral objectivist. To assert moral subjectivity is to assert that moral progress does not exist. But with your edit your argument is actually now even worse IMO, because instead of focusing on a moral relativist position you’re now basically saying morality=culture/law. i.e., since you have no say in what another society does without disrupting their agreed practice, all their actions are permissible. Bigotry is permissible. Slavery is permissible, hangings are permissible, genocide is permissible, etc, just so long as it simultaneously does not occur within proximity to you and rejects your preference. I think you are tolerant of intolerance.
Moral objectivism is pretty much the argument that inevitably always ends with an authoritarian regime to “eliminate” the “unethical” people from society. Germany first, and all that.
I don’t think we’re coming to any sort of agreement here.
You believe there’s a universal set of morals, and I believe individuals’ morals are determined by environment (time, place, morals of others around the individual, etc.) and ultimately come together to form a collective understanding of morality for that point in time and those within that cultural environment.
That aside, concluding that I’m “tolerant of intolerance” is both disingenuous and incorrect. I believe that culture dictates morality, and I respect that other cultures are allowed to have their beliefs, but that doesn’t mean I choose to agree with them. I don’t consider any of your examples permissible under my own moral code.
I also accept that I am not the universal standard, and that it would be hypocritical to impose my own beliefs on demographics with a different moral code. To override the moral autonomy of others1 in a crusade for moral righteousness would be an unjust act in itself. Or in layman’s idiom, “the road to hell is paved with good intentions.”
1 Others, plural. Not individuals who are exceptional to the moral concensus of their surroundings (i.e. murderers)
Yeah dude idk how to tell you this but some people actually do have an interest in a sustainable planet and individual’s bodily autonomy. Idc if these are foreign ideas to you. OP’s post itself is the trolling. If y’all don’t want reactionary responses, dont troll this shit to the top post for the last six hours. You’ve all demonstrated very clearly how little you care about anything outside of your own momentary pleasure.
Oh boy, another dogshit kill animals hehe meme. Very funny maymay community. Psuedoprogressive animal abusers the lot of ya. There is not enough resources on Earth to quench your never ending demand for bodies. Just have ten trillion kids who all definitely have the opportunity to eat just as many animals as you do! Primitive zero brain cell fools. I’d throw you all out of Athens.
internet is filled with echo chambers who cant make ethical decisions of their own. veganism gets downvoted because it makes people question their morality & they have to make the effort of buying plant-based options. god forbid they eat food without cholesterol
More than half of America lives paycheck to paycheck. Vegan options are more expensive. Until you fix the economic crisis and solve poverty you really can’t enforce veganism.
This isn’t even getting into the fact that vegan options are literally nonexistent in many places.
Oh but you don’t care about that because you only care about veganism because it allows you to feel morally superior to others.
Veganism gets downvoted for the same reason any other fanaticism gets downvoted: the vocal minority that talks about it does so with a hoiler-than-thou attitude, much like you are doing right now.
The people who want me to stop punching nonconsenting people in the face unprovoked sure are smug about not punching nonconsenting people in the face unprovoked. They should stop telling me what to do. Live and let live. I am very intelligent. An enlightened centrist you might say! ☝️🤓
That’s a false equivalence.
The vast majority of the Western world does not consider farm animals to have the same rights as humans or pets. Equating the ethics of eating meat and battery is really reaching for an example to make me look stupid.
But hey, if we’re playing that game, here’s some examples that demonstrate unnecessary and annoying proselytizing:
On the basis of their being conscious feeling thinking emotional beings I assert that there is no moral difference between violating the bodily autonomy of a non-human animal and a human. Given a no alternative hypothetical it’s fair to give preference for who to spare, but this is not the same as willful unnecessary violence and killing.
If it’s false equivalency, demonstrate why it is permissible to kill non humans but not even permissible to punch humans in the face. What is the morally relevant difference? If you could apply that difference to a human, would you then justify doing to them all the things we do to animals?
Your examples don’t have victims, this one does.
See but you’re assuming that we agree to your axiomatic premise that there is no moral difference between the two.
We reject your premise. Prove there’s no difference.
You don’t think animals are conscious? Or do you not care that they are conscious?
From the perspective of cultural relativism.*
Insofar as our laws view animals, we do not afford them the same considerations or rights as we do our own species. I can’t speak for Europe, but in the legal systems of North American countries, animals are granted their own distinct protections separate from the protections given to entities with the designation of personhood (i.e. humans or service animals).
For instance, with permits and barring species that are protected for conservation reasons, humans are allowed to hunt and kill animals for both sport and sustenance. In such cases, animals do not consent to their hunting.
However, that does not mean that it is okay to hurt animals without cause. There are animal cruelty laws that cover unjustified and inhumane treatment of wild and pet animals.
If it is legal to kill animals but illegal to be “cruel” to them, then the act of killing an animal is not, in itself, cruelty. If it was, then animal cruelty would unconditionally occur during the process of hunting, making the latter illegal.
With these four points, and keeping in mind that laws are a reflection of the collective beliefs of society, we see that:
By (1) and that punching a human in the face is an act of harming them (and also illegal), I conclude that it is not morally permissible to punch humans in the face.
By (2) and (4), I conclude that it is morally permissible to kill non-human animals.
Just in case anyone thinks relativism is a cop-out answer because laws were written in the past and may not be reflective of society’s current moral views, I ask you to consider this:
Laws are constantly changed to align with updated beliefs. Canada amended its laws to consider gender identity a protected class, which reflects the contemporary belief that transgender individuals deserve equality and freedom from being discriminated against. If society cared about not killing animals, hunting for sport would be unconditionally outlawed.
Edit 1: I meant cultural relativism. Non-Western cultures have different (and in some cases, more progressive) views on animal rights.
Foundationally we already disagree, as I’m a moral objectivist. To assert moral subjectivity is to assert that moral progress does not exist. But with your edit your argument is actually now even worse IMO, because instead of focusing on a moral relativist position you’re now basically saying morality=culture/law. i.e., since you have no say in what another society does without disrupting their agreed practice, all their actions are permissible. Bigotry is permissible. Slavery is permissible, hangings are permissible, genocide is permissible, etc, just so long as it simultaneously does not occur within proximity to you and rejects your preference. I think you are tolerant of intolerance.
Moral objectivism is pretty much the argument that inevitably always ends with an authoritarian regime to “eliminate” the “unethical” people from society. Germany first, and all that.
I don’t think we’re coming to any sort of agreement here.
You believe there’s a universal set of morals, and I believe individuals’ morals are determined by environment (time, place, morals of others around the individual, etc.) and ultimately come together to form a collective understanding of morality for that point in time and those within that cultural environment.
That aside, concluding that I’m “tolerant of intolerance” is both disingenuous and incorrect. I believe that culture dictates morality, and I respect that other cultures are allowed to have their beliefs, but that doesn’t mean I choose to agree with them. I don’t consider any of your examples permissible under my own moral code.
I also accept that I am not the universal standard, and that it would be hypocritical to impose my own beliefs on demographics with a different moral code. To override the moral autonomy of others1 in a crusade for moral righteousness would be an unjust act in itself. Or in layman’s idiom, “the road to hell is paved with good intentions.”
1 Others, plural. Not individuals who are exceptional to the moral concensus of their surroundings (i.e. murderers)
Just a terrible attempt at trolling.
Yeah dude idk how to tell you this but some people actually do have an interest in a sustainable planet and individual’s bodily autonomy. Idc if these are foreign ideas to you. OP’s post itself is the trolling. If y’all don’t want reactionary responses, dont troll this shit to the top post for the last six hours. You’ve all demonstrated very clearly how little you care about anything outside of your own momentary pleasure.
You are as pathetic as your trolling attempts. Please shut up.
Edit: fuck it, I realise that engaging you. Just gonna block you and move on. Have a nice day.
“please shut up!”
-the response of a child when faced with a situation that makes them uncomfortable
Two can play this game:
“Shut up” is also the sensible answer of adults when Christian zealots, nationalists and racists soapbox their shit.
Animal abuser