Let’s ban a product instead of solving the issue at hand… Seriously? I hate my country more and more as each day passes
The device only gives easy access to already extremely weak/non existent security systems. That’s literally it.
It’s just something that’s existed forever, but put into a convenient package and marketed well enough that suddenly normal people are realising how insecure their electronic systems actually are.
Kinda like how they used to make pacemakers hackable because they never thought to add any security at all. I bet many of them still don’t.
Anyway, the issue lies not with this device, which can’t “hack” anything with any actual security, the issue is with manufacturers making devices that literally leave the door wide open to anybody with an extremely basic electronic sniffer/cloner device.
Yep you can do the same operations with a RTLSDR (20-40$) and a signal repeater (20ish) and raspberry pi/netbook. It’s somewhat harder to do if you don’t know the software but it really just exposes very insecure hardware. Companies should put a semblance of security and it would take care of things. These kind of devices are everywhere not just the flipper. Flipper just made it a tiny bit more friendly.
If the flipper can help you stealing a car, the flipper is not the problem, but the neglect and incompetence of the car company is.
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Car security is horrible
I bought a copying remote from aliexpress thinking “no way my car has a static code and not a rolling one… right?”
Nope, fuck you Kia, any stupid cheap remote from aliexpress can be used to copy keys from a surprising amount of cars.
Car security should improve and I hope this becomes a big enough issue that it get’s better regulated
I would have expected an OTP type code to unlock a car… Considering how expensive cars are, this is really cheap to implement. Heck, I could buy a yubikey for €25, and I’m sure if a big company wants to buy a million of them, they can do it for a fraction of that cost… A brand new car costs tens of thousands…, it should’ve been a no brainer to include better security.
Yeah, but saving 1.50 per car improves some stupid business performance indicator, which respectively will get some manager a nice bonus.
I believe you, this world is so weird… For companies that make tens of billions in profit, saving a million dollars on chips is almost a rounding error compared to the benefit to their reputation when their cars are more secure.
Ever since I first met the insanity that are business indicator numbers, I lost my believe in humanity. People knowingly hurt their companies effectiveness and prosperity just to improve those numbers. And they get rewarded for it.
I see how that might make sense to lawmakers. It does present itself as a problem. But the fact that it is a symptom of a security issue is the reason it shouldn’t be outright banned. I haven’t used the thing, but it has looked to me like a pretty snazzy multitool.
It’s like banning swiss army knives. I can see why it looks like it makes sense, but it really doesn’t.
It reminds me of a lawmaker in one of the flyover states that wanted to make it illegal to look at the source code of a website.
Think about this for a second.
And realize that this twat is writing laws.
I had not heard of that one. Was it the “internet is full of tubes” guy?
No, it was a few years back when a researcher found that there was a plain text file of county employee social security numbers just sitting inside the JavaScript of a government website.
There are too many Google results from the upcoming election for me to sort through but suffice it to say, the guy was a class A idiot.
I’ve been watching flipper since it was announced. I should probably buy one and play with it.
All this is going to do is increase sales of the thing and probably increase the number of “kids” trying to break into cars. Streisand effect ftw.
The real problem is Flipper Zero is just a nicely packaged tool that can also br easily assembled with other off the shelf parts. And those parts alone can do many other things that should not be made illegal. The real solution should be from car manufacturers and ensuring that they don’t use tech that can be so easily hacked.
RollJam and RollBack are the exploits for bypassing rolling codes. These exploits are possible because you can replay captured codes at a later time.
What’s happening in most cases is the proximity-based fobs are simply amplified with a device to reach the person’s car in the driveway, since most people keep their keys by the door, and in some cases even within reach of the car without a device. It’s this low hanging fruit where the theft happens, or just a tow truck…
The Flipper is more of an enthusiast and pranking device. The devices used in actual thefts are like disposable $50 alibaba pieces of shit. Canada is effectively creating a clandestine market for simple radio amplifiers made from the most basic electronic components. As someone in Canada who used to build the classic cmoy Altoid-tin headphone amps to sell on etsy, this is tempting…
It seems like maybe the problem is that automakers were able to widely market vehicles that use wireless protocols that are relatively easy targets for attack. This was never properly secure.
Automakers should absolutely be held to higher standards (in general) than they are, and it’s not likely that banning specific devices is going to have any measurable outcome here. It’s pretty well known that people buy and sell malware, and people can just… make devices similar to a Flipper with cheaply and readily available hardware.
This is just dumb posturing to avoid holding automakers and tech companies accountable for yet another dumb, poorly thought out, design feature.
And obviously it doesn’t stop at cars. It seems pretty clear that snooping on any feature using RFID or NFC tech is only going to become more widespread. Novel idea: what about using… actual keys as the primary method of granting physical access? Lock picking is obviously possible but a properly laid out disc-detainer lock is pretty goddamn hard to bypass even with the proper tools, and that skill can’t just be acquired in the same way as with electronic methods of bypass.
I absolutely love mine :)
Ah yes banning the tool will 100% take care of the problem.
That’s the main issue here, the flipper isn’t useful in car theft
Not only that, you can easily buy more advanced car stealing tools that are made for this purpose from Chinese websites.
Clearly criminals who steal cars will DEFINITELY listen to this new law banning their tools.
We just need to make crime illegal 👌
That said, this is the argument that gun-owning cowards use, so does it fall under the “How do we stop this happening, says only country in the world where this happens regularly” category?
Probably a wise move to nip it in the bud
Maybe, but guns are a very different problem.
A toddler won’t kill their sibling with this by accident.
Oh right, forgot about this little thing. Had my eye it long time ago, but forgot about it. Thanks for reminding me Canada. Should probably read up on Streisand effect.
They are a fun little tool for hardware hacking and teaching yourself more about what it can do. I bought one last year.
Dude I think I might pick one of these up just for the IR, I miss the good ol days of controlling my tv and tvs on the go with my phone. I need to find out what all else it can do (and only use the powers for good), the RFID and NFC and garage doors and all that sounds like it could be convenient.
It can control pretty much anything that uses a wireless signal, it’s a pretty neat device.
I just looked up some random youtube videos and man this thing would have been great while I was delivering pizza!
xiaomi phones have an IR blaster still.
Well unfortunately, call me when they have grapheneOS. The F0 honestly seems perfect just for that and it looks like it can do so much more!
IIRC graphene is exclusive to the pixels, no? which sadly makes it a no for me.
i have lineage on mine and it works pretty well.
Yeah because they’re one of the only manufacturers that lets you relock the bootloader which is a pretty important security feature.
Isn’t Lineage really good for privacy too?
I haven’t used Android since uhhh… I don’t even remember what I flashed my HTC Dream with, but it was awesome.
Guns kill people… How about banning guns?
But then how would we well-regulate our militias
Oh yeah. Sorry, what was I thinking! 🤔
I understand and appreciate the point of the childish look of the f-zero, but I often find myself wishing it was in more of a phone or phone case form factor.
Why? No one questions a phone in your hand. You can be literally anywhere, including places that disallow phone usage, and no one is going to bat an eye. But a f-zero raises questions. I can’t tell you have many times I’ve been asked “what is that thing?”
And now, it’s reached a level of popularity that people will recognize it for what it is. It’s not generic looking, in fact quite the opposite. Whereas a long, wide, thin black box looks like every other phone out there.
So what are you doing with it that makes you prefer not to be noticed?
I’ve used it in multiple places that I don’t like the questions. Hospitals when the tv remote has been “misplaced” (aka staff doesn’t give a fuck and someone stole it,) bars (with permission,) entry into hotel rooms, at my work because I forgot my badge.
And as mentioned, pen testing. Though not professionally and just at the office (with permission) to see how far it could get (surprisingly far actually, with the right badge.)
The thing about it is though, it stands out to an extreme. Even if I have it out on a table while sitting down (it’s rather bulky for a pocket) people take notice and ask what it is. “It’s like a universal remote” just raises more questions.
Could you unscrew the plastic case and 3d print something in black?
I’d not thought of that actually. I only have a resin printer though, which raises questions on fragility. But I’ll have to give that a shot.
Besides the obvious nefarious purposes, a pen test is something legit I can think of that would be useful for.
The truth of the matter is, Canadian laws are intentionally non-sensical and intentionally don’t address the root cause of crime. Our country’s leaders are openly engaging in numerous large scale scams not the least of which is the stolen car market. How do you think alllllll of these stolen cars wind up in Africa and SE Asia? Shipping manifests, inspections, public awareness of the string of thefts. How does the government manage to always miss these blind spots do you think?
I’m no expert, but wouldn’t it be very expensive to ship a bunch of cars to a different continent? Particularly stolen ones?
Yea but not as expensive as shipping a bunch of cars and also paying full price.
A quick google tells me 90% of the legal trade is shipped by boat, so you are paying for the boat regardless.
Not really. Those don’t go on specialized car freighters, they’re just packed into a shipping container.
I wanted to get one one day. This sucks. Now I’m gunna have to import it from some rando in Brazil like I did for my switch mods.
