In the 2010s, my neighbor asked me to fix their iPad because i was technically literate. I noticed it had a EoL date and it was fast approaching. I realized that iPads were just bigger iPhones. And Chromebooks were also getting popular.
I then realized we were all fucked.
We have all this “disposable” tech that only have a window of about 3-4 years before it breaks down. Even with open-source and boot loading, there’s just so much garbage and it’ll only continue to grow.
We should also force all these tech companies to take in any e-waste (batteries, cables, usb drives, hard drives, plastic containers, anything) and dispose of it properly.
… shove it up their CEO’s ass?
and dispose of it properly
Introducing i-Landfill™!
Think different!®
Bullshit. I have an iPad from 2011 still in use, Macbook from 2012 still fine running Debian, etc.
I understand that if you’re tech incompetent you need to throw shit out after 2 years, but don’t blame the rest of us for the amount of trash you produce.
Edit: Funny how people downvote someone else for their own dumb actions. You’re all consumers, and bad ones at it apparently.
You gave an example where it is possible to install linux and only basic functionality is required, but what do you think happens with almost all mobile devices?
When it is not possible to change OS/ROM, or they are old, there is no alternative… apart from being stuck with an obsolete OS and apps full of known bugs. Or are you “competent” enough to develop everything yourself?
If you can do the same shit with solar panels or cars or whatever device that has a proprietary bootloader or glued together, then you can climb back on to your high horse.
Don’t buy the shit you know you won’t use in a decade. Not that hard.
Pretty much this. If you buy decent stuff and take care of it, then there’s now less of an expiration date than ever before in my experience.
Computers 20+ years ago were really old after 5 years, but nowadays you can put an SSD into a PC from 10 years ago and it will be more than good enough for most people’s usage. And if it doesn’t have enough memory for the current windows 10 bloat, then Linux is an option, but imo it’s better to just add extra ram so that the user can just stay with a familiar os.
Likewise tablets and smartphones, buy decent specs, don’t use cheap chargers and don’t drop them too often and they just seem too last. And if they do slow down, then a factory reset is easy+fast and can bring them to life again. In my family an almost 10y old Shield K1 still works smoothly for daily online media consumption. A cheap Samsung and Microsoft surface from the same era are now giving a horrible experience though, but those 2 were always shit in comparison to the shield.
Just another byproduct of enshittification. Novadays, a top-end Garmin watch lasts about as long as a Chinese watch of a brand with random characters you buy off Amazon. Google is introducing planned obsolesence in Fitbit. Banking apps are beginning to require phones that are no more than 4 years old. TVs get bricked with firmware upgrades. So, consumers are trained to buy cheapest, least reliable electronics, because over time they’ll provide more value than top-end items which used to last much longer. (This was written on a 13 years old phone. I may not have access to my banking app anymore, but otherwise it works for everything I need, and I haven’t contributed to e-waste in this regard. Not that the pollution angle was my reason to keep the phone, but it’s a nice extra bonus.)
I can guarantee this user is not using an iPhone from 2011 - the iPhone 4s went to shit after the first few years of updates
Samsung Galaxy S2. With a replaceable battery and good external cover, that thing can last for a long time. I did contribute to e-waste by replacing the battery three times so far, but that’s all.
I can guarantee that any Android phone with a good modding community can last this much. He’s probably using Samsung galaxy s series or those old Google Nexus phone.
My phone’s official support stopped at Android 10 yet I’m currently running Android 14 with the help of custom rom.
Hello! Not sure if the screenshot will attach to this comment but I was able to successfully log into Lemmy and I’m replying to your comment from my iPhone 4s.
With all of this being said and done, I do agree that OP is not likely to be using an iPhone. An Android phone from this period is way more usable than this iPhone even with all the hacks I’ve done to it.
Haha that’s pretty awesome! Maybe I was too quick to judge :-D
Don’t be so certain. Using jailbreaks the 4s can be downgraded to either 8.4.1 or 6.1.3. My own one is on 8.4.1 and old.Lemmy.world renders perfectly on it. I’ll grab it actually and see if I can reply to this comment.
what phone do you use?
That is an old phone! Makes me wish my OnePlus One did not break. I miss that phone, I would probably still be using it if it hadn’t.
13 years old? What? Even with custom ROMs, how is that still running modern apps?
It’s not. 90% of my phone usage is calling, text messages, FM radio, taking quick photos, and checking the weather. The rest is the occasional browsing. I haven’t really found the need to do more with my phone.
Google is introducing planned obsolesence in Fitbit
Have they? In what way?
They’ve done good work for Android and Pixel, promising 7 years of updates for the latest Pixels. Samsung has also gotten much better about this with their recent phones. That’s going to put a huge dent in the e-waste as Android phones have surely been heavy contributors (certainly much higher than fitbit).
TVs get bricked with firmware upgrades.
What TVs? Vizio, Hisense, the Chinese junk budget brands?
Very sympathetic to your e-waste concerns; I think the source of the problem is actually getting better not worse though. In general, the mobile tech sector is “growing up” and supporting products longer.
Have they? In what way?
This is speculation by Ars Technica. Essentially, a recent firmware upgrade seems to have drastically lowered the battery life of some models. In addition, they are removing all third-party apps in the EU in response to the DMA.
What TVs? Vizio, Hisense, the Chinese junk budget brands?
Most recently Roku. But I used a TV only as an example. A year ago, an OTA upgrade bricked microwave ovens. Google’s history of bricking its smart home products goes back to at least 2016, companies like Wink threaten to brick your devices unless you suddenly start paying a monthly fee on top of your purchase price “for life”, there were reports of smart bulbs or thermostats ceasing working as well.
The following is pure speculation on my part: I think we’re at the beginning of a huge wave of planned obsolescence. Everyone and their mother are now training AI’s, and they want their customers to replace older products, which don’t support AI integration, with new ones. They’ll soon stop supporting the older devices or outright bricking them, to force people to buy the new ones.
This is speculation by Ars Technica. Essentially, a recent firmware upgrade seems to have drastically lowered the battery life of some models. In addition, they are removing all third-party apps in the EU in response to the DMA.
Sounds like it’s more speculation from users published by Ars … which is fair but also needs to be taken to some degree with a grain of salt. This is not expert commentary, this is personal anecdote. It’s a grievance I have with a lot of media, e.g., interviewing random people on the street for “their take” … they don’t necessarily know what they’re talking about.
I’d flag this as concerning but, it’s also not uncommon for updates to devices to require more resources, with requires more power and can definitely be done accidentally. There’s the doomer argument that it’s all malicious planned obsolesced under the guise of plausible deniability … but I wouldn’t be so sure. They’re selling subscriptions for fitbit, for a subscription model to work, the fitbit needs to work; it’s against their own interest in continued revenue to brick the devices.
Google does need better support in general; it’s not uncommon for bugs to go unfixed for way longer than should be acceptable.
Most recently Roku.
That’s not a bricking from a firmware upgrade; it is scummy though.
Google’s history of bricking its smart home products goes back to at least 2016
They’ve discontinued products they haven’t launched but purchased, that’s not quite the same thing. Even some very old nest cams are still working just fine (again it’s against their best interest to sell subscriptions and have devices that they’re selling subscriptions for dropped from support/virus ridden/etc). That’s a bit scummy but it does make sense from a “we want some of their technology but don’t want to maintain their code/redevelop the product on our software.” Every piece of hardware they’ve done this on has seemed incredibly niche to me as well (i.e., not something you’re going to find in your local department store).
The exception to that was their nest home security system, which IIRC they allowed users to pivot into an ADT system (and I vaguely recall offering some level of refunds).
Their Stadia controllers they provided a free tool to convert into generic Bluetooth controllers after shutdown… Literally nothing to gain from that except perhaps some PR.
There’s plenty of evidence to the contrary for Google bricking perfectly good devices “just because.”
Wink threaten to brick your devices unless you suddenly start paying a monthly fee on top of your purchase price “for life”
Yeah, this is the typical “startup made a bad business decision and is now trying to squeeze users.” I hate it as much as you do (but it’s not Google, Samsung, or generally speaking the mobile sector/big tech/mainstream tech).
The following is pure speculation on my part: I think we’re at the beginning of a huge wave of planned obsolescence. Everyone and their mother are now training AI’s, and they want their customers to replace older products, which don’t support AI integration, with new ones. They’ll soon stop supporting the older devices or outright bricking them, to force people to buy the new ones.
Big “press X to doubt” from me, primarily because of the desire to sell subscriptions. I think more likely Google (as an example) will keep everything they can working and then sell Gemini subscriptions on e.g., the nest hub + make new nest hubs with attractive features.
Speculation on my part but I think Google invested in Fuschia (and ported tons of legacy devices in the Nest ecosystem) specifically because they wanted to reduce the security risk and maintenance burden of keeping old devices going (to maximize subscription revenue).
In general, the mobile tech sector is “growing up” and supporting products longer.
[Citation required.]
Literally just gave multiple examples. If you want a research paper, you aren’t going to find it.
Literally just gave multiple examples. If you want a research paper, you aren’t going to find it.
You said some things that I’m calling b.s. on, as far “… That’s going to put a huge dent in the e-waste …” goes.
If anything they’re supporting hardware with driver/OS updates less now than before.
I have a good working Android tablet that I’ve replaced the batteries on twice that I now can no longer use because the OS won’t get updated any more (security risk, etc.). Perfectly working, has to go in the trash.
If anything they’re supporting hardware with driver/OS updates less now than before.
That is literally false information. Prior to the last year there has been no version of Android that has more than 4 years of operating system security updates, before that it was common to be 3 and before that 2. They bumped it to 7.
I have a good working Android tablet that I’ve replaced the batteries on twice that I now can no longer use because the OS won’t get updated any more (security risk, etc.). Perfectly working, has to go in the trash.
Literally what I just explained they’ve been working to change, and have changed for their latest devices.
That is literally false information.
No, its not. It was not extended to existing hardware that is still functioning. Product support should last as long as the product is functional.
Stop astroturfing. Manufacturers need constant sales of their products, so they go out of the way to make sure longevity doesn’t happen, and ewaste is the results.
Talk to me when right to repair is a real thing everywhere legally, and is supported by the manufacturers.
Fitbits that aren’t the latest model have battery lives shorter than 12 hours (many users reporting 6 hours or less) after a firmware update. It’s a well-reported issue on the fitbit community.
And not to be rude but have you used any electronics released in the past decade? Battery life always goes to crap almost exactly 2 years after purchase, and no one releases products with replaceable batteries. Appliances use plastic parts and come with a plethora of unnecessary features all on one circuit board so when one feature breaks the appliance is dead, with replacement parts being almost as costly as a new appliance. Inkjet printers refuse to work without all the colors being full, even to the point of not scanning when out of ink. There’s even a story going around about a business-class HP printer that stopped working (full on ink) because the credit card attached to the ink subscription expired.
It’s gone long past planned obsolescence at this point. Whether it’s software or hardware, companies want you subscribed for life. Anything less and they break the devices that were able to dupe you into thinking you owned.
Battery life always goes to crap almost exactly 2 years after purchase
Disposable battery technology is disposable. We don’t have truly rechargable batteries yet … and the EV batteries only last longer (AFAIK) because they’ve got better cooling systems and are higher grade – read more expensive – components.
Appliances use plastic parts and come with a plethora of unnecessary features all on one circuit board so when one feature breaks the appliance is dead
That’s not the entire story there … it’s just cheaper to make it one board. You can eliminate some points of failure by using one board as well.
It’s definitely ridiculous appliance companies aren’t providing parts. I’d also like to point out … I was specifically responding to the widespread e-waste from the mobile devices sector. Not “all things that could possible become e-waste in 2024.” GUARANTEED planned obselence is what has been happening there for years with “2 years of device security updates” and that nonsense is ending.
There’s even a story going around about a business-class HP printer
Yeah, don’t buy HP.
It’s gone long past planned obsolescence at this point. Whether it’s software or hardware, companies want you subscribed for life. Anything less and they break the devices that were able to dupe you into thinking you owned.
Subscriptions aren’t necessarily the enemy when it comes to e-waste. They’re bad for ownership, but they’re not bad for planned obsolescence and e-waste. If your subscribers need your device to keep working to keep paying you, you’ve got a much stronger incentive to keep the device working vs just abandoning it.
This already happened with software, there really isn’t “buy once then buy again and again and again” software anymore, the vast majority of software has gone subscription. This is also true of online games like CSGO, Hunt Showdown, Fortnite, etc.
It’s just a matter of making things into subscriptions that are mutually beneficial. Your printer being an InkJet printer with a vendor locked in subscription that doesn’t offer any real service is absurd and should be illegal. Your smart home camera having a subscription to store cloud video, provide new features and security updates … that’s a reasonable service that a lot of “normal” people don’t want to do themselves (and incentivizes manufactures to keep their devices working so you keep paying).
A big part of the problem with e-waste is that companies setup fancy features to sell a product but didn’t plan for how to support that product’s software for the life of the product (because they’re not making any more after the point of sale) … so we end up with a very insecure piece of unserviceable e-waste.
Don’t get me wrong we’ve still got a long way to go before we find a solution that handles the problem for all the various devices being manufactured these days. However, credit where it’s due the mobile devices sector / “big tech” is doing better than they have for the last 15 years, and that’s all I’m trying to contest. There IS change happening.
They should really mandate open firmware and bootloaders, and even spec sheets, etc. for deprecated hardware.
Because it’s a PITA to recycle e-waste, at least where I live in the US. My municipality charges extra to drop off e-waste, and they only have a few days a year where they have dropoff at the local transfer center to get rid of e-waste.
Hope you have the day off and the cash to pay to get rid of whatever it is.
I used to live in a county where it was incredibly easy. Just pull into their clean transfer center and they’ll take it out of your trunk for you. Not just e-waste, but toxic stuff like paint and motor oil. And it was paid for by a very small tax increase.
But now that I live in a different county I have to drop off my electronics between 9 and 3 on a weekday, and there is no mechanism for me to dispose of toxic household waste.
a very small tax increase
That was likely painted as killing your children and causing hellfire to rain down on your home, if some political ads are to be believed. And that’s the actual issue at the heart of everything: if a corporation can’t make obscene amounts of profit doing it, it won’t get done.
i mean, hell, it’s a PITA to recycle in the US in general. Our nearest recycling center is a middle school 20 minutes from where we live.
Once that’s gone? Who knows!
I emailed MSI support to get a new hinge for my F key. They repeatedly told me the entire keyboard needed to be replaced. After several days of back and forth, and me assuring the support person that, no I just need the key hinge, and that yes, they could just send me the hinge and I could fix it myself, they relented.
Took 30 seconds and didn’t mean that a perfectly good keyboard be trashed.
Planned obsolescence is indeed a thing. Companies don’t want you to stick to your devices forever.
Maybe if everything wasn’t designed to be unrepairable and fragile as fuck this wouldn’t be an issue.
Yet they’re still able to put those stupid fucking recycling labels on their products as if it’s recycled.
Not sure which one you mean but I have a feeling it’s a lot like the resin identification code where it looks like the recycling symbol but isn’t. It’s to make you think it can be recycled so you don’t feel as bad about buying it and throwing it away.
do your part, buy old used shit, it’s cheap, good for the environment, and makes you feel good :)
Or just don’t buy new things. That’s my other strategy.
Chuck Linux on it
second and third this one. Bought a 2011-2012 era thinkpad, stuffed linux on it, configured it. Shits mint. Couldn’t ask for more.
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My sector. Go ahead and pay me more if you want more.
“Come on guys, solar panels don’t make that much waste. Besides, it’s renewable!”
“Nuclear Fission is dangerous, we shouldn’t make more power plants, invest in things like solar!”
Don’t mind me, just waving my tiny “I was right” flag as we drown in our own hubris.
How are we even supposed to know what’s right anymore? Am I supposed to vote for the solar or the nuclear fanatics? I just wanna save the fucking climate, what should I do?
Edit: I’m sorry if this isn’t phrased clearly, but what I mean to say is “solar fanatics or nuclear fanatics”, implying that I feel right in the middle between the to and just want to make the right choice. People are arguing loudly from both sides.
Nuclear, preferably fusion works out and energy becomes a non-issue. But nothing else we have can beat the reliability, energy density and power-to-emissions ratio of nuclear.
Well, the ‘nuclear fanatics’ are probably the best bet for actually saving the climate. The energy to waste ratio makes renewable energy look like a squirt gun compared to a fire hose. Even including the nuclear disasters of Chernobyl and Fukushima, renewable energy is more dangerous to human life.
If you care to learn in video format, Kyle Hill has done an invaluable service illustrating very important things about nuclear energy.
Well, the ‘nuclear fanatics’ are probably the best bet for actually saving the climate.
Are you volunteering your basement as storage location for nuclear waste? It’s funny how the biggest nuclear proponents are usually the ones who scream the loudest when their region is target for a geological survey for a possible storage location.
Are you volunteering your basement as storage location for nuclear waste?
Yes, absolutely. Kyle hill has many videos. One where he’s kissing a barrel of nuclear waste. You have a very outdated idea of what modern nuclear energy is and I highly suggest actually clicking the link I provided.
It’s funny how the people who rally the hardest against nuclear have no fucking idea what it is beyond the disasters.
Yes, absolutely.
Then go to your politicians and do. Talk is cheap.
I can’t literally put them in my basement, Fred. They’re in my state already and I support them existing. What do you want from me?
What do you want from me?
Apparently you’re the minority. That’s good.
The politicians who are owned by fossil fuel companies?
One person writing to their politician isn’t worth the trash can space the letter will end up in. We need to have a majority of people supporting smart energy decisions, and that starts with telling people that their opinions on nuclear energy are 50 years out of date.
I have. I also offered to have a weed store move “nextdoor to me” since they kept on bringing it up during the debates years ago. Even sent them my address and the address of the empty building next door so they would know exactly where to put a legal dispensary.
It didn’t happen but that might be for the best. Maybe I should have to walk a few minutes to get cannabis instead of walking nextdoor.
Now that I have fulfilled your requirements I am sure you will be retracting your statement…any time now.
Yes I am volunteering my basement for that. Being literal. If you really think my basement is the best place you are welcome to pay me off to use it. I await you to put your money where your mouth is.
s funny how the biggest nuclear proponents are usually the ones who scream the loudest when their region is target for a geological survey for a possible storage location.
Citation needed. I want the names of ten people who match your criteria and decibel levels.
Citation needed.
I don’t click random YouTube vids. I want a citation in a journal peer-reviewed
Nuclear. Go ahead and call me a fantic or whatever you want, I am sure I have been called worse. Renewables in anything resembling a near timeline aren’t up fro the task and we should have started decades ago.
It is one of the depressing things about tech. We often know the exact solution and convince ourselves that it won’t work.
Always vote for the futuristic sci Fi energy sources
Issue is that it is the most accessible form of hone electric generation
