In the end, the KIA car company made its cars into subscription models, I really hate this because in the end the car we buy with our own money doesn’t feel like it belongs to us. Should we finally buy an old school car ? so as not to be affected by this subscription models or is there a way to crack the software installed in it ?
The only problem with services as a subscription is THE FUCKING IDIOTS THAT PAY FOR THEM
If nobody fell for shit like that, manufacturers would drop it like boiling diarrhea
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When you buy the car, you also pay for that integrated, albeit disable, service. To enable it you have to pay a subscription. I agree with the OP. This should never be the case. Now, the culprit is not the car manufacturer, but the people that pay for it. If nobody, or aven few people, paid for this, they wouldn’t have a business for that and they would likely stop. Bottom line is, you don’t like it? Give your money to another brand.
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This is true.
Go and buy a car from a manufacturer who doesn’t insist on subscriptions… whilst you still can!
Something like the XBUS seems like a good choice. They seem to focus on the important and practical stuff, and I can’t find any information about any sort of related subscription.
Finally someone who gets it
Glad to see you here my fellow comrades
Worth noting that these features appear to require your car to be connected to a cellular network. This isn’t the same as BMW charging a fee for heated seats.
They could have just put a SIM card in your car and required you to pay your cell phone provider for a connection.
You don’t need a cellular connection for long range, low bandwidth communication. There are networks such as Lora that don’t require a paid subscription to use.
That’s not what this is though. I have a Hyundai Tuscan that is always connected to a cellular network.
I can always connect with the car with my phone if both the car and phone have internet access. It’s also how the “find my car” feature works. And also I believe software updates (OS and maps).
I meant that they don’t have to use a cellular connection, they could use something else if they wished. LoRa is a two way data connection designed for low bandwidth, long distance. Range can be anywhere from 3-10 miles depending on obstructions/obstacles. There are other similar protocols out there.
3-10 miles is nothing though. With a cell phone connection your car can be anywhere a cell tower is and you can connect with it.
That’s farther than a cell phone. A cell phone might get 3 miles maybe more if you have the high ground. It’s a lower frequency and therefore has a longer range. There are both public and private gateways for LoRa. So you can use it even if you don’t own or operate a gateway.
Maybe you misunderstood me. My car can be in New York City and I’m in Los Angeles and I can check it’s location and lock/unlock the doors
You could do the same thing without using a cell network.
I have something similar for my Subaru but it’s only 4 dollars a month.
It’s a fee I gladly pay to be able to start my car and set the interior climate from my phone. I imagine there’s some cost the access a network to have that functionality and I don’t see a problem paying for it.
The old style that started from a key fob required you to be a lot closer to the vehicle to start it. Right now I start it a few minutes before I leave my building a quarter of a mile away. I could start it from a different country if I wanted to. Needing to be within a few hundred feet would be pretty useless to me.
This is free elsewhere. The fact that you’re okay paying monthly for remote start is hilarious and sad. Probably don’t tell people you’re okay with this.
The tesla app does an INSANE amount of shit no other vehicle app does and its free. But you want to pay monthly to turn your car on 😆
Except it’s a Tesla.
What about when a security vulnerability is discovered and your car can be started and unlocked by someone else? That’s one of my concerns with smart features from companies that aren’t primarily tech companies
Very personal opinion of mine, I hate subscription crap. However, I have to agree that, based on what you say, Subaru’s cost is much easier to digest than Hyundai/Kia POS.
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I think op just doesn’t understand what the subscription is for.
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Same for me. I have the blue link with Hyundai. It’s free for 3 years, then a reasonable amount after that.
“You wouldn’t download a car.”
I would absolutely hack the heated seats to work without my credit card.
Simple. Buy an older car and spend the extra money maintaining it. Reducing demand is the only language consumers have that businesses understand.
It doesn’t have to be ancient; even 5-10 year old cars don’t have this bullshit.
Just don’t buy a 5-10 year old Kia or Nissan. Nearly every one on the road is going to have their engine sieze or transmission have issues
Not even 5 years man my 2022 is nice and doesn’t have subscriptions.
I mean okay but in 5-10 years these are going to be those older cars.
Which is why we have to stop it now if we don’t want unfeatures.
Yeah but in 100 years the cars from 5 years from now will be 95 years old
A jeep from ww1 can still function today with regular care a maintenance, and so can a 5-10 year old car. The point isn’t the age, it’s how you treat the vehicle.
or… we just need more FOSS alternatives to the car manufacturers proprietary OS.
I already see GH issues like: “breaks stop working when going above 200mph.”
I will do you one better: open source public transport
I can tell you working at an OEM we see far crazier notes like this coming in
Brakes, if your brakes break you break.
Even better, an open source car!
I think the term you mean is old car especially from before 2018
in the end old cars basically open source you can modified it whatever you want as long as not breaking regulationsSome of us want all the internet connected options. And want to own their machine and have good security
Open source car software and firmware would do that
So my two options are a repairable old gasoline/diesel car or a non reparaible electric/hydrogen car?
Yup, that’s the only choice not you but everyone get
While I’m generally against subscriptions, for the most part the above are things that require cellular service and cloud infrastructure…
While the price may be too high. I’m normally ok with subscriptions for things that have on-going costs to the seller.
Put a knockoff air tag in your car and half of this is solved for $10.
Literally one item on that list could be solved with a airtag. And airtags start at 30, even the knockoffs are 20 and don’t really work well.
To find a car and control it remotely will need a server. That’s why it’s not free.
it looks like only way is to somehow imitate their API and change those links in the car. I think it would be cool to selfhost such server.
The car costs a lot of money and they already give you wareanty, free service and will in one way or another milk you for years to come. I don’t think one more connection to a server costs this much.
Especially since all the „telemetry” is uploaded for free.
It’s the cell plan not the server costs unfortunately. When they moved to app based starting from anywhere you need to start paying the cell carrier for that wireless connection.
Servers and engineers to maintain the software and infrastructure are also not free.
I can understand some of these features requiring a $5/month subscription. Anything more than that is absolutely insane. With roadside assistance (depending on what that actually entails) I could see that sevice being bumped to $15-$20 a month,
Interestingly, these do include roadside and the cheaper option is $5/month and the more expensive one is just over $12/month.
So it sounds to me like this would be a good value for you.
I never said this was a bad value, but I think we all know that these prices will not remain. They will increase because people will pay it once they are locked in. And if someone buys a used car, they have to pay that subscription to get these features, ensuring the manufacturer gets a slice from used sales. I can understand the cost, but it sets a dangerous precedent. It should be one time fee that grants the VIN access to the severs permanently. What would be really nice is if we had legislation that requires companies with a certain amount of revenue to maintain services for older products so they can’t just pull the plug later anyways.
I really hope my '01 4Runner lasts forever
Got an 02 still going strong that I’m delusional enough to hope lasts another 20 years.
You wouldn’t download [the basic features of an item you already purchased.]
Tesla’s run on Linux and have already been jailbroken, the future is now.
Glad to see, finally progress has been made
But the script it self not released yet in public AFAIK
Yall taking about modern cars, meanwhile my 94’ Citröen works like a charm. Aftermarket alarm with GPS unmbolizer for 50 bucks does al the work.
https://piped.video/watch?v=aTNAghGMnIU
This is freedom hahahaha
It even hasn’t a ECU. Lol
They also made them easy to steal!
If it makes you feel slightly better I pay about $70/year for AAA so thats about half of the cost there since it comes with Roadside assistance.
What happens when the car becomes too old and they decide to drop that version of the API the car is talking with? Huh? That’s another problem with these with “critical service but it can only go through us”, when they change their mind you get fucked.
I bought a 2021 VW GLI, it has a software component called Car-net that has literally never worked. I don’t even know what it’s supposed to do. The little I’ve found is that it’s supposed to have an app remote start and maybe a few other features, but according tk carnet, my car is still dealer owned. There have been at least six contacts to the car net folks from the dealer about the issue. I have a remote start on my FOB so whatever, but the car software support issue is so real. 🤷🏼♂️
I’ve had regular software issues like this in the past and it’s such a pain to deal with and fix. Even going through customer support is painful, because it’s not supposed to be this way so it’s more than likely because of this the customer support experience will be long and you’ll go through more people. And I don’t want to even imagine how it is to have to deal with these issues on critical software and devices and to not get priority support. You feel powerless and broken.
I have a 2018 Passat car net works just fine.
I had to contact the dealer to have them activate the eSIM in the car and register an account their site via the app. (Pretty standard stuff)
And yes it’s a subscription like this for locating the car, updating navdata online and remote heating + charging info. (It’s a hybrid)
Well… I say “just fine” their app is slow and unstable. But everything worked nicely with an unofficial home assistant integration. And when VW moved everything over to their new app, it continued to work on my old car, and it took the HA community about a week to sort most of the new API out.
It’s not perfect, but it does technically work, even on their older models. I can still download and install updated maps on it too for the onboard nav. (Though i usually just use Android auto…)
Even if you decided not to find out how to get it working, doesn’t mean it’s abandoned.
All that being said this is one of many genuine reasons to be concerned about this trend. And a good reason for people that write about and review cars to care about the software in the cars, the support you can expect, and the companys track record when it comes to supporting older models.
And like others have stated. The BMW example with the heated seats is just… rotten.
I guess you can stop paying your subscription.
